You said the quiet part out loud. The obsession with having women in all occupational roles is something that needs to change in the USA and elsewhere.
Very good piece, Peach. As a man who served with women in the Army there ARE social dynamics there that hamper the mission. If the woman is pretty we act differently. Age and rank are certainly a factor. Deferment in either direction is a factor.
Yes, I will take the best pilot regardless of immutable characteristics.
PS.. I love it when women address another incompetent woman with "Bitch-..."
I remember when the Navy had to start adding female carrier pilots, back in the '90's if I remember correctly. Lots of crashes and near misses, plus some needless deaths. It was because some female senators, like Hutchinson of TX, insisted on all females being fast tracked through the system to "make a number" of pilots. All pilots, regardless of race, ethnicity, gender, have to go through the same training and verification process. Otherwise, people are just going to be killed.
Kendal Swanson might become a very good pilot if she ever flies again. My question is why she was flying a passenger jet with so little experience. Was she pushed forward too fast because of DEI hiring and staffing goals? I would not be surprised.
Apparently Delta just released limited information about the pilots but did not release their names. Interesting! Are they usually so reticent about identifying pilots involved in crashes? Is it similar to the delay in identifying the female Blackhawk pilot, giving the individyal(s) an opportunity to scrub their social media?
"Let her practice flying with a planeload of her girlfriends from the Ladies Who Fly luncheon." Lol, the line of the year!! Kudos for (yet again) addressing a taboo subject.
I think you nailed the problem. DEI = Die, not just with pilots but in other fields as well. I watched a video where Jordan Peterson pointed out that if a company hires 50 engineers who have years of experience, and 50 new female engineers the quality in the company goes down because there are not that many female engineers graduating from programs so they have to have people with lower grade points to fill the quota. That is just dumb. It doesn't matter if they are women, or various races, what matters is the level of training and experience. I don't want to drive over DEI built bridges anymore than fly DEI piloted (or built) airplanes.
This is a similar issue to manage with mixed combat units.
I do not know a male who would not be more protective of a female soldier beside him than of a male soldier beside him, even if that female is better, smarter and tougher.
Agreed. Never been in the military, but every man grows up fantasizing about what he would do if a mom and kid are trapped in a burning building... you run into the building. Even those of us who chicken out if actually facing that situation are somewhat ashamed that we're cowards.
For biological / species preservation reasons, women are far more valuable than men. As a result, the male drive to protect women is evolutionarily VERY deep.
More quiet parts. I think it was Heinlein -- or was it (James Bond) Fleming: A woman in combat is a second heart. A second fatal vulnerability. And: NO ONE knows how he will react until the hammer drops.
Um, I would take issue with that "women are more valuable" line. We can't do it alone! I also wonder how deep that male drive to protect (which I'm in awe of) is if feminism could wipe it out, in many, in a couple of generations.
Feminism sent it into hibernation, but it's not dead. And it shows up sometimes in very public ways.
I certainly didn't mean any offense, Judith. And I'm not suggesting that women can or should be made to "do it alone". But if truly necessary, the next generation requires a much smaller group of men than women to create. It is that biological reality that male protective instinct and the logic of "women and children first" is rooted in. That's all I meant.
No offense whatsoever taken. But why even contemplate a future where "if truly necessary" there will be fewer men? I don't accept that premise. Maybe the drive to protect is rooted in something else, like the obvious vulnerability of children and mothers, and women more generally in being smaller and less strong than men?
I was a frequent flyer in the 1980s and hardly a week went by without some "interesting" weather that made landing "inciting". My last flight was in 2007 and I don't intend to fly again. No DEI cockpit and tower crews for me. I want captains like my naval aviator cousin who had several hundred carrier landings under his belt and eventually flew 747s.
My last flight was 1998 (puddle jumper) ...it has been a battle not to fly regarding past arguments with my grown kids..so in Feb. of 2022, my husband and I went on a 3-and-a-half-days-to-get-there driving trip to visit son in FL. We almost got killed on the way home due to a truck not 'seeing' us and we got too close to a concrete median. That was the year I started early social security benefits at 65 (plus a classmate got killed driving to work). I thought: I am going to spend that $ I worked over 50 years for....because no one gets it if you die. Then all those people that died in their 60's and 70's from 'the experimental vac' added to my justification of 'not waiting'.
I'm not opposed to driving trips, and husband has a big truck so I do feel somewhat safer. It's just that I over-pack due to anxiety, bringing my own pillows and towels. I snore. Husband nor I sleep well no matter where we are. We sleep in separate rooms at home so hotel rooms are no fun anymore.
I think I have ten reasons not to fly, but no one really cares. Then covid hit the airplanes and it only reinforced my 'fears'. Then United Airlines began their DEI propaganda.
I get very anxious when my kids fly and all I request is they let me know when they land.
I used to be a travel agent in the late 80's, working with United Airlines...I loved that job but if a plane crashed involving Denver, we became very anxious in case we sold that ticket to someone. One of the gals at work claimed to know a mechanic that worked on Continental airplanes ... she had some things to say about the mechanical history. Now I see that United took over those planes....
I truly identify with all you write in your comment, it would seem we are about the same age and I have the same anxieties and sleep issues….Although I live in England and distances are so much smaller, so driving isn’t such an issue. Unfortunately my daughter and grandson live in France…Her partner will drive overnight to get to our home in north east England, going through the Channel Tunnel, many hours, but not days. I hate flying because of all the tedium caused by all the ‘security’ nonsense and I would never fly again if my daughter lived in England. All this DEI nonsense is very worrying - perhaps Mr Trump will put an end to it.
I suspect the private airplanes for the rich and politically connected will still have all male pilots. This is all part of their efforts to eliminate travel for the great unwashed masses.
Thank you for the information on Endeavor. I try to avoid such subcontractors - I recall there were reports of shoddy training at Colgan that came out after that crash - but I definitely want to avoid any business that is run on PR rather than competence.
I was part of a six man aircrew on a B-52 during the Vietnam war. We were all pretty young and I really think it would have been very difficult to successfully integrate a young woman into that environment.
Korean Air had a series of crashes in the 80s and 90s that were traced to young male crew being overly defferential to senior pilots. They would only hint about issues that were occuring. They extensively trained junior crew members to say, "I believe we are in an unsafe situation." And then trained/drilled senior pilots on what they must do when they heard this statement. They have not had a fatality since 1997.
"I don’t blame her for her incompetence. Instead, we should also blame the system, the airline." Especially if the airline "brags about its all-female 'unmanned' flights that feature two female pilots and female cabin crew." Not because women are incompetent (they're not) but because the airline is clearly elevating something other than competence.
However... as a former small plane pilot myself, I think you're reaching here. A go-around in a jet that's 30 feet off the deck with 50 people on board is a big ask -- non-pilots don't realize how hard that is (literally, you only have seconds, no time for a checklist.) I suspect lack of training more than sex differences in the cockpit.
The Blackhawk you may be correct on. Considering the military's obsession with DEI, the more experienced men might have hesitated to take control. Again though, non-pilots don't realize how challenging the low-altitude, urban, nighttime environment is. (I used to miss stuff in Los Angeles all the time; that's what ATC is for.) There's a saying in aviation: "red, right, wrong" -- if a red wing light is on the right side, be worried because that plane is coming toward you. The copter and the jet closed at 90 degrees and high from the green side, the absolute worst for visibility in a copter, which is slanted considerably downward when flying forward. It's quite possible they all missed it.
Your best example of mixed gender cockpit likely contributing to a crash is the 2009 one. That conversation should never have happened at altitude, let alone takeoff or landing.
On a side note, Endeavor Air can laud its all-girl flight crew, but I guarantee if a (hypothetical) Hooters Air did the same thing all hell would break loose.
BTW: Just finished your book -- loved it. I'm giving it to my 18 y.o. daughter who says she wants 6 kids. (She needs to find and marry a decent man first, but I'm optimistic. If there are any serious Christian, young men reading this stack in No CA, message me.)
I wondered about the use of NV in a crowded urban environment as well. However, I'm not in the military, so there may be legitimate reasons why you would actually do that in combat. I don't know. My understanding is that NV tends to diminish depth perception considerably.
You said the quiet part out loud. The obsession with having women in all occupational roles is something that needs to change in the USA and elsewhere.
Outstanding. But emblematic of our "culture" that no man could say it. Thanks!
"Driving that train high on cocaine, Casey Jone you better watch your speed" - Grateful Dead Fits the topic!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy7G8vhOuCk
Better having minded signals.
Very good piece, Peach. As a man who served with women in the Army there ARE social dynamics there that hamper the mission. If the woman is pretty we act differently. Age and rank are certainly a factor. Deferment in either direction is a factor.
Yes, I will take the best pilot regardless of immutable characteristics.
PS.. I love it when women address another incompetent woman with "Bitch-..."
I remember when the Navy had to start adding female carrier pilots, back in the '90's if I remember correctly. Lots of crashes and near misses, plus some needless deaths. It was because some female senators, like Hutchinson of TX, insisted on all females being fast tracked through the system to "make a number" of pilots. All pilots, regardless of race, ethnicity, gender, have to go through the same training and verification process. Otherwise, people are just going to be killed.
Danny Huckabee
Kendal Swanson might become a very good pilot if she ever flies again. My question is why she was flying a passenger jet with so little experience. Was she pushed forward too fast because of DEI hiring and staffing goals? I would not be surprised.
Fantasy: women work twice as hard for half the credit.
Reality: women work half as hard for twice the credit.
Reality 2: black women work one-tenth as hard for ten times the credit.
And now you know.
Apparently Delta just released limited information about the pilots but did not release their names. Interesting! Are they usually so reticent about identifying pilots involved in crashes? Is it similar to the delay in identifying the female Blackhawk pilot, giving the individyal(s) an opportunity to scrub their social media?
At this point, I think it is safe to assume that DEI hiring is involved anytime we do not immediately know the names of the pilots after a crash.
"Let her practice flying with a planeload of her girlfriends from the Ladies Who Fly luncheon." Lol, the line of the year!! Kudos for (yet again) addressing a taboo subject.
I think you nailed the problem. DEI = Die, not just with pilots but in other fields as well. I watched a video where Jordan Peterson pointed out that if a company hires 50 engineers who have years of experience, and 50 new female engineers the quality in the company goes down because there are not that many female engineers graduating from programs so they have to have people with lower grade points to fill the quota. That is just dumb. It doesn't matter if they are women, or various races, what matters is the level of training and experience. I don't want to drive over DEI built bridges anymore than fly DEI piloted (or built) airplanes.
This is a similar issue to manage with mixed combat units.
I do not know a male who would not be more protective of a female soldier beside him than of a male soldier beside him, even if that female is better, smarter and tougher.
Just the way it is.
Agreed. Never been in the military, but every man grows up fantasizing about what he would do if a mom and kid are trapped in a burning building... you run into the building. Even those of us who chicken out if actually facing that situation are somewhat ashamed that we're cowards.
For biological / species preservation reasons, women are far more valuable than men. As a result, the male drive to protect women is evolutionarily VERY deep.
More quiet parts. I think it was Heinlein -- or was it (James Bond) Fleming: A woman in combat is a second heart. A second fatal vulnerability. And: NO ONE knows how he will react until the hammer drops.
Um, I would take issue with that "women are more valuable" line. We can't do it alone! I also wonder how deep that male drive to protect (which I'm in awe of) is if feminism could wipe it out, in many, in a couple of generations.
Feminism sent it into hibernation, but it's not dead. And it shows up sometimes in very public ways.
I certainly didn't mean any offense, Judith. And I'm not suggesting that women can or should be made to "do it alone". But if truly necessary, the next generation requires a much smaller group of men than women to create. It is that biological reality that male protective instinct and the logic of "women and children first" is rooted in. That's all I meant.
No offense whatsoever taken. But why even contemplate a future where "if truly necessary" there will be fewer men? I don't accept that premise. Maybe the drive to protect is rooted in something else, like the obvious vulnerability of children and mothers, and women more generally in being smaller and less strong than men?
I was a frequent flyer in the 1980s and hardly a week went by without some "interesting" weather that made landing "inciting". My last flight was in 2007 and I don't intend to fly again. No DEI cockpit and tower crews for me. I want captains like my naval aviator cousin who had several hundred carrier landings under his belt and eventually flew 747s.
My last flight was 1998 (puddle jumper) ...it has been a battle not to fly regarding past arguments with my grown kids..so in Feb. of 2022, my husband and I went on a 3-and-a-half-days-to-get-there driving trip to visit son in FL. We almost got killed on the way home due to a truck not 'seeing' us and we got too close to a concrete median. That was the year I started early social security benefits at 65 (plus a classmate got killed driving to work). I thought: I am going to spend that $ I worked over 50 years for....because no one gets it if you die. Then all those people that died in their 60's and 70's from 'the experimental vac' added to my justification of 'not waiting'.
I'm not opposed to driving trips, and husband has a big truck so I do feel somewhat safer. It's just that I over-pack due to anxiety, bringing my own pillows and towels. I snore. Husband nor I sleep well no matter where we are. We sleep in separate rooms at home so hotel rooms are no fun anymore.
I think I have ten reasons not to fly, but no one really cares. Then covid hit the airplanes and it only reinforced my 'fears'. Then United Airlines began their DEI propaganda.
I get very anxious when my kids fly and all I request is they let me know when they land.
I used to be a travel agent in the late 80's, working with United Airlines...I loved that job but if a plane crashed involving Denver, we became very anxious in case we sold that ticket to someone. One of the gals at work claimed to know a mechanic that worked on Continental airplanes ... she had some things to say about the mechanical history. Now I see that United took over those planes....
I truly identify with all you write in your comment, it would seem we are about the same age and I have the same anxieties and sleep issues….Although I live in England and distances are so much smaller, so driving isn’t such an issue. Unfortunately my daughter and grandson live in France…Her partner will drive overnight to get to our home in north east England, going through the Channel Tunnel, many hours, but not days. I hate flying because of all the tedium caused by all the ‘security’ nonsense and I would never fly again if my daughter lived in England. All this DEI nonsense is very worrying - perhaps Mr Trump will put an end to it.
I suspect the private airplanes for the rich and politically connected will still have all male pilots. This is all part of their efforts to eliminate travel for the great unwashed masses.
Thank you for the information on Endeavor. I try to avoid such subcontractors - I recall there were reports of shoddy training at Colgan that came out after that crash - but I definitely want to avoid any business that is run on PR rather than competence.
I was part of a six man aircrew on a B-52 during the Vietnam war. We were all pretty young and I really think it would have been very difficult to successfully integrate a young woman into that environment.
Impossible, frankly.
Korean Air had a series of crashes in the 80s and 90s that were traced to young male crew being overly defferential to senior pilots. They would only hint about issues that were occuring. They extensively trained junior crew members to say, "I believe we are in an unsafe situation." And then trained/drilled senior pilots on what they must do when they heard this statement. They have not had a fatality since 1997.
"I don’t blame her for her incompetence. Instead, we should also blame the system, the airline." Especially if the airline "brags about its all-female 'unmanned' flights that feature two female pilots and female cabin crew." Not because women are incompetent (they're not) but because the airline is clearly elevating something other than competence.
However... as a former small plane pilot myself, I think you're reaching here. A go-around in a jet that's 30 feet off the deck with 50 people on board is a big ask -- non-pilots don't realize how hard that is (literally, you only have seconds, no time for a checklist.) I suspect lack of training more than sex differences in the cockpit.
The Blackhawk you may be correct on. Considering the military's obsession with DEI, the more experienced men might have hesitated to take control. Again though, non-pilots don't realize how challenging the low-altitude, urban, nighttime environment is. (I used to miss stuff in Los Angeles all the time; that's what ATC is for.) There's a saying in aviation: "red, right, wrong" -- if a red wing light is on the right side, be worried because that plane is coming toward you. The copter and the jet closed at 90 degrees and high from the green side, the absolute worst for visibility in a copter, which is slanted considerably downward when flying forward. It's quite possible they all missed it.
Your best example of mixed gender cockpit likely contributing to a crash is the 2009 one. That conversation should never have happened at altitude, let alone takeoff or landing.
On a side note, Endeavor Air can laud its all-girl flight crew, but I guarantee if a (hypothetical) Hooters Air did the same thing all hell would break loose.
BTW: Just finished your book -- loved it. I'm giving it to my 18 y.o. daughter who says she wants 6 kids. (She needs to find and marry a decent man first, but I'm optimistic. If there are any serious Christian, young men reading this stack in No CA, message me.)
Still scratching my head about why goggles were worn where peak or near-peak traffic could be expected?
And would it be too tough to add foolproof radio switches?
And...what if those who train pilots were to acknowledge implicit bias might be an issue and practice communications before take-off?
Each of these seem like relatively cheap safety safeguards. Is that the problem?
I wondered about the use of NV in a crowded urban environment as well. However, I'm not in the military, so there may be legitimate reasons why you would actually do that in combat. I don't know. My understanding is that NV tends to diminish depth perception considerably.
Ideologies and their accompanying social constructions are fantasies that quickly become blood and death!